“Surface fixes are like Band-Aids on bullet wounds. Until you’re ready to dig deeper, lasting change just isn’t going to happen.” — Rachel Leigh
Brief Summary/Overview:
In this episode of The Kanthal Group LinkedIn Live, we dive into the difference between quick fixes and real solutions in life, health, and leadership. As partners in both life and business, we get candid about our own experiences with surface-level solutions and why digging into the root cause is essential for lasting change. From functional medicine insights to the challenges of executive coaching, we cover it all and explore what it means to truly address the underlying issues that drive our struggles.
Key Takeaways:
- Why quick fixes can hold you back from real change in health, life, and leadership.
- The importance of addressing root causes and how they transform relationships.
- Our contrasting coaching styles and how they help us push our clients to deeper insights.
- Why real growth only happens when you stop avoiding the tough truths.
- How to recognize when you’re “playing in the kiddy pool” and start wading into deeper waters.
Timestamps:
- 0:00 – Introduction: Kicking off today’s topic on root causes.
- 3:15 – Rachel’s Story: From functional medicine to coaching—Rachel’s approach to root causes.
- 5:30 – Going Beyond Symptoms: How we apply the idea of root causes in health and leadership.
- 10:10 – Client Challenges: Why clients seek Band-Aids and how we guide them deeper.
- 15:20 – Different Coaching Styles: Darren and Rachel discuss how their approaches differ.
- 29:00 – Hacks vs. Real Solutions: Rachel’s take on why “hacks” miss the mark.
- 35:40 – Final Thoughts: Wrapping up with the importance of confronting the root issues in every area of life.
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Transcript:
Rachel: All right, we’re live! Welcome, everyone. Today, we’re diving into one of my favorite topics: root causes. In functional health and wellness, we always look for the root cause rather than just treating surface-level symptoms. This applies to everything in life and leadership.
Darren and I—the fearless CEO of The Kanthal Group and myself, COO and executive coach for women’s leadership—are here to discuss how we approach root causes with clients, others, and even within our relationship. We often see people focus on symptoms, but unless you dig deeper, you’re just putting Band-Aids on bullet wounds. As usual, we’ll kick things off with a good dad joke. Darren, take it away!
Darren: Oh, you’re going to love this one. So… did I tell you I joined a nudist colony? The first week was really hard.
Rachel: Think that’ll pass the LinkedIn Police?
Darren: I mean, come on, that’s PG—for adults, anyway.
Rachel: (laughing) Yeah, I’ll give it that. We’re not exactly the most appropriate adults that you’ll ever meet, right?
So, let’s talk about Band-Aids on bullet wounds—surface-level fixes. When we met, you actually came into my life as a client in nutrition therapy and functional medicine. You’d had lots of people give you temporary fixes for your health issues. I think I was the first to say, “There’s an underlying problem here.” Instead of just treating heartburn, for instance, let’s address what’s causing it. Once we found the root, the symptoms went away.
And we’ve seen that in our relationship and with our clients. There’s always something deeper. Understanding that is crucial for a great life, health, and leadership.
Darren: Right, and the way you and I get to the root cause is different. I wonder if that’s a gender thing? You tend to go more directly to the root with clients, while I often have to take a roundabout path.
When your clients come to you, they often look for quick solutions—what to eat, which supplements to take, or how to manage their calendar. You don’t play around; you get straight to the root. For my clients, the issues are sometimes more hidden. They’ll share stories that hint at deeper issues, but we often uncover them through experimentation, like practicing listening rather than speaking. Through these steps, we get to the root cause eventually.
Rachel: Ah, I get it. So, basically, I’m better at going directly to the root cause than you are. (laughing)
Darren: (laughing) Sure. I’ll admit, your training and experience are focused on digging deeper, especially in health and the mind. And people do often want surface-level fixes, which is why quick-fix solutions like Ozempic are so popular. But with my clients—whether it’s life, health, or leadership—I can’t just take what they say at face value. We have to dig in to uncover what’s really going on, or we’re just doing a “quick fix.”
Rachel: Exactly. Unless you address the underlying issues, you’re not solving anything. So, Darren, tell me, when you see clients come in with surface-level solutions, what’s your approach?
Darren: My coaching program at the Co-Active Training Institute is all about recognizing that our clients are naturally creative, resourceful, and whole. They’re not broken, and they have the potential to find solutions. Dan Young from the chat put it well: “Meet clients where they are, get them what they want, and educate them on what they need.” You can’t make someone willing if they’re not ready.
We can’t make clients go deeper if they’re not ready, right? Sometimes that means meeting them at the surface level—working with them on what they believe is the problem, like time management. For instance, if they think it’s a matter of better time management, then we discuss options. What calendar changes can we make? What meetings can they decline? As they say, “If you say yes to this, you’re saying no to something else.”
Sometimes, even if we know an issue is just surface-level, we still need to play with it, experiment, and remove variables. With long-standing clients, though, we can be more direct. We recognize when they’re staying at a surface level, even if they know that’s not the real issue. We might need to say, “We’ve already addressed this. This is not the problem. Is time management really what’s going on here?”
Rachel: Exactly. We’ve both been there ourselves; we’ve experimented with these strategies and been our own clients. I remember when I was staying in that “kiddy pool”—just sticking with surface issues and not diving deeper. At one point, my therapist even “broke up” with me, saying, “We’re done. You’re not willing to go any deeper than ankle-deep.” It was the best thing she could have done for me.
With my clients, we often go very deep. I’m not just helping them be heard in meetings; sometimes, we’re addressing significant traumas affecting their well-being—stress and health issues that can even lead to autoimmune diseases. Especially for women, prolonged stress can trigger conditions like Hashimoto’s. So, we go gradually deeper at a comfortable pace, often over years, to reach the root causes.
Darren: Totally.
Rachel: Now, let’s talk about what really bothers me: hacks. Life hacks, nutrition hacks, leadership hacks—you can’t just “hack” your way through life. Sure, there are ways to make things easier, but if you’re always looking for shortcuts, you miss the lessons, struggles, and wisdom that build resilience.
What happens when the hacks stop working? Then you’re stuck figuring it out without a foundation. You can’t keep “hacking” your schedule to avoid real issues or to delay confronting things like how you feel about your life, career, or even your role as a parent.
You can’t hack your way through the important things. I believe that the biggest leadership breakthroughs come from self-awareness, not industry hacks or tactics. What’s your take on that?
Darren: I agree with the sentiment, though I don’t have as much distaste for hacks as you do. In some cases, I actually like them, but hacks are only helpful if you actually use them. At best, they’re usually short-term fixes. If a hack is really valuable, then it should become part of your routine or standard, right?
It reminds me of how often I’d double-book myself because I’d say yes to everything without even checking my calendar. The “hack” was that you’d ask me about my day, and I’d say, “I don’t know, my calendar knows!” It was a temporary fix, but over time, it turned into a habit where I don’t say yes to anything until I check my schedule. The hack was really covering up a deeper issue, though—FOMO.
On one hand, I didn’t like adhering to a calendar because it felt rigid, and freedom is one of my top values. Ironically, the more I follow my calendar, the freer I actually feel. And then there’s the FOMO—if I get invited to something today and another thing tomorrow, I’ll say yes to both, figuring I’ll decide later. But that often means I stretch myself too thin, offend people, and end up having to apologize. The “calendar hack” was just masking the deeper issues around freedom and FOMO.
Rachel: Exactly. If we look at the definition of a “life hack,” it’s just a simple, clever tip for completing familiar tasks more efficiently. Hacks can be great for minor tasks, like streamlining bedtime routines with the kids—not because I don’t want to spend time with them, but just to avoid wasting time.
But when it comes to the bigger stuff—leadership, health, managing real challenges—hacks don’t cut it. I remember reading a “hack” about only touching your mail once. It suggested picking it up, dealing with it immediately, and not setting it down until you’re done. That way, you avoid moving it from one spot to another, wasting all those touchpoints. It’s efficient, yes, but that’s not how you build a career or tackle major life goals. There’s a place for hacks, but they’re not substitutes for the real work.
You can get there more quickly, but that’s not a hack; it’s a system. I often see this with my clients. They ask, “Isn’t there something I can do to get more energy quickly? Or something I can take to sleep better? Or a quick fix for my menopause belly?” They want a pill or a quick solution, but that doesn’t work long-term.
Rachel: You mentioned a question from Willie Brown, a Navy veteran, who asked whether it’s more effective to cure root issues or adapt to them so they are no longer a problem. It depends on whether the issues are curable. In terms of health, sure, but sometimes root causes are more habitual—like defensiveness in leadership.
Darren: I agree; it depends on the individual.
Rachel: Personally, I’ve dealt with fear and anxiety in relationships for years, not just in the last three years. I’ve been working on this particular issue since high school. Can I say that this will ever go away? I’m not sure, despite all the work I’ve done. So, to Willie’s point, maybe there’s some peace in accepting that certain things will always be there.
And that doesn’t mean we don’t work on them. We have to figure out how to live our lives while setting up systems—not just hacks—through trial, error, and practice. It’s about finding more peace with these issues. Some things can absolutely be cured if you’re willing to put in the work. You can’t just keep taking Advil for a broken arm; you have to set it properly.
I hope that answers the question. What are your thoughts on it?
Darren: I agree. If you’ve done the exploration to get to the root cause and still don’t have a solution, then adapting to it makes sense. The key question is whether you’ve fully explored it. You can’t just dismiss an issue like heartburn and take medication without understanding the underlying problem.
Rachel: Exactly.
Rachel: What came to mind, though not entirely on topic, is the use of psychedelics for trauma. They can help the brain access depths of understanding that individuals may not reach cognitively on their own. Our primitive brain only allows us to go as deep as it feels safe.
Alright – demand dissent: when it comes to teams that aren’t performing—speaking up, innovating, or collaborating—the root cause often traces back to leadership behaviors and organizational culture, not the team’s capabilities. What are your thoughts on that?
Darren: I love that idea! I meant to look up an article from a colleague named Carlene. It was from Adam Grant’s book, discussing the concept of a “naysayers network” or “dissenters network.” I’ll find it while you’re talking.
It was based on my post last week about contrarians. Adam had a perfect saying about it that I forgot, but it was insightful. When I think about teams, we are the sum of our parts. Some team members may be more inclined to speak up than others, influenced by extroversion or introversion, which can highlight certain behavioral characteristics.
At the core, if the leader hasn’t created a culture where it’s safe to disagree, people simply won’t speak up. That’s been my experience. One of my theories is that we have a primitive brain with fight-or-flight instincts. In the past, we literally ran from saber-toothed tigers. Nowadays, what we replace that with is our livelihood at work. If I think speaking up could jeopardize my job, lead to being overlooked for a promotion, or put me in a bad light with my leaders, I will remain silent because it feels unsafe.
So the root cause of a lack of dissent is that it’s not safe to do so. There’s something in the culture—whether it’s company-wide, department-wide, or team-wide—that needs to be addressed.
Rachel: Exactly. I want to take this from a slightly different angle. We often discuss whether this issue is related to gender. Historically, it hasn’t been safe for women to dissent. We are conditioned not to speak up, and I carry this conditioning from my mother, who learned the same from her mother, going back centuries. The idea that speaking up could lead to harm is deeply ingrained.
Everyone needs to recognize that both men and women fear potential retaliation. This is a natural, primitive response to going against the grain.
Darren: Absolutely.
Rachel: Women need to practice the art of dissent to prove to ourselves that it doesn’t always come with harm. Men should also cultivate empathy and understanding. It’s not as simple as saying, “Why don’t you just speak up?” We need to be aware of the historical context that has led to these dynamics.
For example, women have faced significant repercussions for speaking out, from being silenced to being publicly shamed. We need to acknowledge this reality.
Darren: Yes, it’s crucial that everyone is on the same page about this.
Rachel: To add to that, there are historical influences that affect individuals today. My upbringing differs significantly from yours. My mom didn’t care what society thought; she instilled in me the importance of speaking up. While I had to learn to express myself respectfully, I was raised to voice my opinions.
Darren: And not everyone has had that experience.
Rachel: Exactly. In my corporate career, there were instances where dissent led to retaliation. We often talk about the “old story, new story” concept. You can’t drag the old story with you if it doesn’t serve you. Yes, the issues women face continue, but we must practice dissent to empower ourselves and help other women. When men encounter this, it will become more normalized, breaking the cycle of old stories.
Right. Now let’s move on to the topic of vanishing values. Organizations, like people, need clear values to guide decisions and behaviors. When values are compromised for profits, the foundation crumbles. You do a lot of coaching on values, so I’ll let you take this.
Darren: Yes, values are integral to my coaching style. The best way to explain it is through a story. My very first coach, Chrissy—shout out to her—introduced me to a values assessment. With her permission, I made it available online, so anyone can take it for free.
When someone takes the assessment, they get their top values prioritized in an unbiased manner. From there, we typically focus on the top five values, although individuals can choose to work with six or seven if they prefer. The goal is to define what each value means, how it shows up in life, and how to recognize when it’s being compromised.
The top five values are particularly revealing in my work. Based on those values, we can use them as a gauge for decision-making. If a decision aligns or misaligns with those values, we can identify pet peeves, non-negotiables, and sources of frustration. This process helps clarify where life feels out of alignment, taking a pro-and-con list and giving it more substance.
It’s about having a laser focus on how life aligns with your top five values, rather than just what you like or dislike. This brings us to values within organizations. Businesses can and should be built on a set of values. You need guideposts to understand what you stand for.
Rachel: Exactly. So, if Company A exhibits certain values and a client has a completely different set of values, that often leads to feelings of unfulfillment, resentment, and frustration. It’s like going to a party where you don’t fit in—it’s exhausting. Conversely, when you’re with people who share your values, it energizes you. Do you see this in your coaching?
Darren: Yes, absolutely. We can have different values and still enjoy ourselves if we respect those differences. I always tell my clients that if family is a high value for you, and your job regularly demands that you miss family dinners or events, like Joey’s soccer game, you’re going to be frustrated. If the company doesn’t value family, then you’re trying to fit into a value system that doesn’t align with yours, and you can only fake it for so long.
Rachel: That makes perfect sense. We have just a minute left and one more topic to cover. Can we extend it a bit? Sure, let’s go a little longer. Okay, so maybe we should have a 15-minute buffer next time. Real change starts with radical honesty about our own habits, beliefs, and blind spots. It requires moving beyond quick fixes and hot hacks to address root causes directly.
Darren: I can sum this up quickly because it’s very personal for me. Until I was let go from a job I didn’t want to leave in 2008 or 2009, I blamed everyone else for my problems—my boss, my coworkers, the weather. I saw myself as a helpless victim. It wasn’t until I looked in the mirror and realized that I was the problem and the solution that things changed. I was the common factor in all my situations. Until I took ownership, I had no control.
I thought I was in control all along. The long-winded takeaway is that until you recognize yourself as both the cause and solution to your challenges, you’re stuck.
Rachel: You’re both the bullet wound and the silver bullet.
Darren: Well said.
Rachel: All right, everyone. Thanks for listening. We’ll be back here next week, right? Yes, next Tuesday at 9:15. We’re still flushing out the topic, but it’ll be about different perspectives. Great! See you all next Tuesday!
Darren: Bye!