“The real challenge isn’t just building skills—it’s learning to manage the six inches between your ears.” — Darren Kanthal
Brief Summary/Overview:
In this episode of The Kanthal Group LinkedIn Live, we dive into the internal challenges that leaders face when trying to improve their professional and personal lives. Join us as we discuss what we call the “six-inch problem”—the space between our ears and how our thoughts shape our actions and beliefs. From naming our inner critics (meet Becky and Richard) to exploring the importance of self-awareness and discernment, we share insights from years of coaching experience. If you’re caught in a negative thought loop or seeking better ways to navigate complex relationships, this episode reveals how to master your mind for more positive outcomes.
Key Takeaways:
- How shifting perspective isn’t just a “quick fix”—it’s a mindset shift that takes work.
- Why naming your inner critic (like “Richard” or “Becky”) can help you create distance from negative thoughts.
- The importance of discernment: choosing the thoughts that lead you to your best outcomes.
- Why action isn’t always the antidote and when “observing” is the most effective move.
- Practical tools for leaders and anyone seeking to get “unstuck” in their thinking.
Timestamps:
- 3:30 – The Six-Inch Problem: We introduce the concept of the “six-inch problem” and how our thoughts influence success.
- 5:10 – Self-Awareness and Inner Critics: Meet “Becky” and “Richard” and learn how naming these voices can help manage your thoughts.
- 10:00 – Perspective and Choice: Rachel discusses the power of discernment and how to choose empowering thoughts.
- 15:00 – Leader Tools: Practical questions and tools leaders can use to guide their teams through challenging situations.
- 20:30 – Action Isn’t Always the Answer: Darren explains why observation can sometimes be more powerful than action.
- 25:00 – Navigating “Can’t” vs. “Won’t”: Rachel explores the power of choice and accountability in overcoming “can’t” excuses.
- 30:15 – Wrap-Up and Final Thoughts: We reflect on the importance of coaching, support, and having people who push you toward growth.
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Transcript:
Darren:
Do you see that smile right there? That was totally posed for the camera.
Rachel:
It was! When we do our video clips, they’re always like, “Do something like that,” so we try to make it easy for our videographers. But, I think we’re at number five or six now.
Darren:
Is this number four? All right, good talk. So we don’t know which one it is.
Rachel:
Somewhere between three and six.
Darren:
Oh, sorry, I thought you were saying something else. I gotta manage this LinkedIn thing; it takes like 30 to 45 seconds… Oh boy, there it is. Okay, now we’re live.
Rachel:
We weren’t live before? Okay. Debatable.
Darren:
We were, but now we’re ready. Maybe we’ll talk real quick about the “six-inch problem,” which we were laughing about behind the scenes. Lots of jokes, right
Rachel:
We’re immature, you know. It doesn’t have to be so serious! That’s why we’re entrepreneurs—we get to do what we want and say what we want, for the most part.
Darren:
For the most part, yes. All right, before we hop in, let me tell you this dad joke.
Rachel:
Why don’t you tell people who you are first
Darren:
They know who we are. My name is Darren, founder and CEO of the Kanthal Group. Who are you, Rachel?
Rachel:
I’m Rachel, COO and Women’s Executive and Leadership Coach for the Kanthal Group. But it’s good practice to say hello and let people know who we are. We’ll work on that introduction later.
Darren:
All right, joke time. I saw two mimes having sex the other day. They were doing unspeakable things to each other.
Rachel:
You are lame.
Rachel:
Your dad jokes are getting closer to PG—they’re usually G-rated, but now you’re pushing it a little.
Darren:
Well, since we’re talking about “six-inch problems” and the phallic nature of it, a sex joke felt appropriate.
Rachel:
That was actually a good one! Okay, so what are we talking about today?
Darren:
We’re talking about perspective. When we started writing this up, it sounded pretty lame, right? So many coaches just say, “Change your perspective,” like it’s magic and suddenly your brain thinks differently. To some extent, that’s true, but it’s just not that easy. Then, we joked that the real problem is our brain itself. Hence, the “six-inch problem” — it’s the space between our ears, what’s going on in our mind.
And through years of coaching, we’ve learned that leaders need great skills—conflict resolution, time management, delegation, communication, and so on. But the real challenge is managing your brain. That’s what’s blocking success: how well or not you manage your thoughts.
Rachel:
Yeah, I find it so interesting as a coach listening to other people’s perspectives. It’s amazing how different they can be, even among family members or long-term partners. This makes relationships and leadership challenging unless we take the time to understand. One thing I often ask my clients is, “Why are you choosing to think that?” Sometimes, that question sounds a bit snotty, but it’s something I ask myself too. Why choose that perspective when there are so many other options?
For instance, last week, I was coaching a client with some interesting perspectives, and even this morning, I asked another client, “Why are you choosing that language? Why are you choosing to believe that?” It wasn’t benefiting her; it was getting her the opposite of what she wanted. So, we’re going to break it down—what’s happening in the six inches between your ears.
I’m going out of order on our take five because we have self-awareness first, but we’re not starting with that. Let’s start with Becky versus Richard. Take it, Richard.
Darren:
All right. So, there’s a saying that Rachel taught me. Most of us know the saying, “It’s not what you say; it’s how you say it.” That’s the version I’ve always known. Then, a few years ago, Rachel introduced me to what I think is an even better version, because it illustrates the part both sides play in communication. The saying is, “There’s what I say and what I mean. There’s what you hear and what you make it mean.”
I’ve literally seen this play out. A client once told me a story about someone at her office who would walk in each morning and say, “Good morning, Rachel, how you doing?” And she’d respond, “I’m fine,” but then she’d tell me, “That guy is so phony; he doesn’t care how I feel.” Isn’t that interesting? Here’s this coworker saying a simple “good morning,” but she made it mean he was being phony. So, to your point, why would you choose to think that
Rachel:
Exactly! What’s the benefit of that? So, what does this have to do with Becky and Richard?
Darren:
Zero. [Laughs] All right, so let’s talk about the judge and amygdala. I’m a practitioner and certified coach for Positive Intelligence. It’s a book, a concept, and a way of life that’s often described as life’s operating system. In very simple terms, Positive Intelligence says there are two voices in our brain: Judge and Sage. Sage is our wiser self, while Judge embodies all our negativity.
To personify my Judge, I’ve named him Richard—for obvious reasons when you think of the short version of Richard. My Judge is a “Richard,” screaming at me, telling me I’m not good enough, and that everything wrong is because of me. When Richard takes over, it almost doesn’t matter what Rachel does. If I’m hijacked by Richard’s thoughts, I interpret everything as negative, even if I know it’s not true.
Rachel:
Yep, that’s your Richard. In my coaching, I talk about the amygdala—our primitive brain that’s designed to keep us safe and comfortable. My amygdala’s name is Becky, and I have my clients name their amygdala too, so we can separate it out. When Becky takes over, she’s out to protect herself, and she tends to overreact.
For example, if Darren and I are having a conflict, Becky is the one who’s already on Zillow, looking for a new place to live! She’s planning to pack his things and kick him out. Becky has her own thoughts and perspectives, which are immediate and reactionary, especially under stress. She’s not rational and makes impulsive decisions that don’t serve me.
Rachel:
Becky’s a b****. Richard’s a d***. Neither of them gets us what we want.
Darren:
True! All right, so how do you see this play out with your clients?
Darren:
Everybody has a Richard or a Becky. If you haven’t named it, watch yourself. Observe your thoughts and notice when you get sucked into that negative narrative. If you’re unaware of the voice of your Richard or Becky, you might not be as self-aware as you could be.
When my clients aren’t aware of their Richard or Becky, they operate on autopilot, often acting defensively, aggressively, or passively in ways they later regret. It’s not in line with who they want to be, and they’re usually apologizing afterward. This lack of awareness is what causes them to act out of character.
Rachel:
Are they really acting out of character, or is it part of their character because they’re unaware?
Darren:
That’s a good question. At the core, I believe everyone is good. Our core self is wise, compassionate, loving, and understanding. But when people are acting like Richard or Becky, I think it’s because they’re not self-aware enough to see another way to act.
Unless you’re a sociopath or a total narcissist, you don’t walk around acting like an a****** all day, every day.
Rachel:
With my clients, it’s less about aggression and more about shutting down or feeling hopeless. There’s confusion, frustration, and self-doubt. They internalize it, and it erodes their self-worth. Either way, you have to be willing to look at yourself, understand, and hear your own thoughts without excuses or shame.
Sometimes my clients don’t want to admit their negative thoughts, thinking there’s something wrong with them. But there isn’t. We all have thoughts flying through our brain, picked up along the way from different experiences. One of our key practices is discernment: choosing which thoughts to focus on.
Rachel:
It’s not a problem. There’s nothing wrong. This is totally normal. Let’s talk about discernment.
Darren:
Go ahead.
Rachel:
I had a client last week who kept choosing negative thoughts and didn’t know why. I asked her to give me five alternative perspectives for the same situation. After thinking it through, she picked a different perspective that felt better and was more beneficial.
That’s the power of choice and discernment—you have a buffet of options, so choose wisely. Pick the one that leads to the best possible outcome. It’s your choice. No one else can tell you what to think unless you let them.
What do you see with your clients? Is this a thing, or is this just me?
Darren:
No, you said that well. It’s universal. I think of a story from Positive Intelligence, where the creator, Shirzad, says, “You don’t have control of your brain,” in an attempt to shock the audience. He explains that if you’re constantly ruminating on old stories, even as you go to bed, then you don’t really have control of your brain. His point is to encourage discernment with your thoughts.
When you go down negative rabbit holes, pull yourself out as soon as you can. The deeper you go, the more negative your thoughts get. At my core, I know that’s not true, so why would I choose to believe something negative when I know it’s false?
Rachel:
Those are such powerful questions for leaders too. When a team member comes in with a story or frustration, leaders can ask, “What is true here?” That one question can transform conversations.
Whether at work, with friends, or as a parent, it brings clarity. Sometimes people can’t get there on their own, especially when they’re too close to a situation. That’s where a coach comes in—to help them find other perspectives, to step back, and to look more neutrally at their thoughts.
Rachel:
It’s kind of like choosing your life partner. Keep discerning.
Darren:
Exactly. And there’s a fine line between discernment and giving ourselves grace. We all make mistakes, and yes, we beat ourselves up. But at some point, we need to forgive ourselves and others.
I see clients who think having certain thoughts makes them bad people, like thinking their kids are annoying or being frustrated with a colleague. But there’s nothing wrong with those thoughts. Part of discernment is giving yourself grace to acknowledge these thoughts without judgment.
Rachel:
We’ve talked about doing a LinkedIn live on repair. If Becky or Richard runs the show for a while and there’s harm, how do you repair? Repairing within yourself is essential, but repairing with others builds trust and strengthens relationships.
Genuine repair—not lip service—is necessary. We don’t always choose the right thought, and it doesn’t always go well. If it doesn’t, fix it, and know there’s nothing wrong with you.
Rachel:
All right, this brings me to another thought that I hear often from clients: “I can’t.” That’s crap.
Darren:
Agreed. A lot of people think in terms of “should,” like, “I should do this.” I try to steer clients away from that, encouraging them to consider whether they’re willing or unwilling to do something. The example I use is, if I’m trying to lose weight and eat a full gallon of ice cream, clearly, I was willing to do that. So, own it.
Darren:
The “can’t” I hear most often is related to budget or creative solutions. People box themselves in, thinking they “can’t” do something. But usually, it’s about being unwilling. Sometimes those restrictions are self-imposed, while other times, they come from the organization or relationships they’re a part of. But like you said, it’s usually not that they can’t—it’s that they’re unwilling.
Rachel:
A lot of the “I can’ts” I hear are because people are unwilling to experience the potential outcome. For example, I had a conversation with some friends in high-level positions about handling difficult people in their organizations. When I asked if they had confronted these individuals, they said, “I can’t. I’d face retaliation or be seen as aggressive.” But I believe they can—they’re just unwilling to face the potential consequences.
And sometimes, for change to happen, someone has to be willing to take that risk. If you’re unwilling, that’s your choice, but then don’t complain about it. I have clients whose health is compromised by their demanding careers. When I tell them what changes they need to make, they’ll say, “I can’t ask my partner to help with the kids,” or “I can’t ask my team to do this.” I coach them if they’re willing, but at the end of the day, I tell them, “Take action or don’t, but repetitive complaining doesn’t help anything. It just reinforces those negative pathways, making it harder to change.”
Darren:
I find it so interesting, the difference in what you hear from your female clients and what I hear from my male clients. I rarely hear “I can’t” from men. I hear lots of “shoulds,” though, like “I should do that” or “I probably shouldn’t have done that.” It’s often dismissed easily, which is why I focus on the concept of willing or unwilling. But it’s interesting—I don’t hear many “can’ts,” whereas you do.
Rachel:
I hear a lot of “can’ts,” as well as “shoulds,” and plenty of excuse-making. These are high-functioning women who have figured out big parts of their lives. So, when they say they “can’t” do something small, it feels misaligned. With male clients, I’ve noticed they’ll say, “I should do it,” and if they’re unwilling, they just move on without making it a big issue.
Darren:
What I often see with clients is a bridge between being unwilling and willing, or from “I can’t” to “I will,” and that bridge is often “I don’t know how.” They don’t know how to respectfully challenge a boss, delegate effectively, or address conflict. It usually comes down to not having a “talk track” or the right way to start a conversation. They worry about getting triggered or losing control in the moment, so the solution is often to create an experiment or practice to help them feel more prepared.
One of my favorite clients tried this at home. We were talking about the coaching question “What else?” and I suggested she use it with her husband until he caught on. After a few rounds, he finally said, “Why do you keep asking me that?” It was a funny moment, but the experiment helped her practice being curious instead of directive. Often, a safe experiment can help build that bridge between inaction and confidence.
Rachel:
Yes, and I agree. You’re suggesting to go try something, but our fifth take is that action isn’t always the antidote. You can listen to all your “shoulds,” “can’ts,” and Becky’s narrative, or you can run experiments, which I do believe in. Sometimes, though, it’s essential to process emotions, get clear on who’s “running the show” in your mind, and then choose your actions wisely.
I love to take action, but sometimes you need to get grounded before you do anything. So, tell me more about why you believe action isn’t always the antidote.
Darren:
It’s a bit of a twist on the usual “action is the antidote” idea. Generally, I do believe in taking action, but sometimes, we’re not ready. There are thoughts and emotions in the way, and the “action” needed is simply observing. For example, I had a client who always dominated meetings, and the action I suggested was to stay quiet and observe.
What happens when you don’t speak? How does it feel? What’s the urge? Do things go off track without your input? By observing instead of acting, he gained insights that led to a different kind of growth.
Sometimes, instead of traditional “action,” we need to reflect, observe, and simply notice what’s happening. That can be the most effective action we take.
Rachel:
For my clients, mostly women, they’re drowning in action—doing, micromanaging, overthinking. They’ve built habits of overdoing to stay in control or to prove themselves. Sometimes, I tell them, “Stop.” Less action, less thinking, less doing.
Taking constant action can be a buffer to avoid facing deeper issues. They need to pause to really hear themselves and figure out what they want, not what others want. So, I encourage my clients to take a step back, because action isn’t always the answer. Sometimes, it’s the thing keeping them stuck.
Darren:
So, for the women you coach who are managing everything at work and home, when there’s literally no more capacity to “do,” what actions—or inactions—do you suggest to help them quiet their minds?
Rachel:
So many things! But first, we have to understand why they’re doing it. Women often don’t want to admit the reason behind their behavior, but understanding that “why” is essential.
Darren:
How do you help them explore the “why”?
Rachel:
It sounds simple, but I just keep asking questions. Women often know only a few emotions—happy, sad, mad. I help them go deeper. I ask questions about how things feel, what’s happening in their body. It’s about getting them to a place where they’re honest with themselves. Then, we can use different tools.
Darren:
Share some of those tools.
Rachel:
We talk about prioritization, time audits, thought audits, emotional audits. I recommend the book Fair Play for those dealing with a lack of equality in household responsibilities. For clients who struggle more at home than at work, we work on addressing that imbalance. Couples therapy can help, too.
There’s also the emotional jug concept, which we’ve used in our own relationship, to address household dynamics that drain energy and bandwidth. There are countless tools to dive into.
Darren:
For me, sometimes it’s about encouraging clients to sit with uncomfortable emotions rather than avoiding them. Life is quieter, but those moments allow us to learn. One of my clients noticed he becomes irritated when he feels he knows better than others. I suggested he observe what happens next time he feels that way, and he had a major realization.
Rachel:
Yes, it’s about creating an environment where people can hear their own thoughts. Not everyone can sit in a yoga pose and ask themselves questions. But we can guide them to create those moments of clarity.
Rachel:
One last point I want to make: I believe you need someone to help you. Yes, you can learn tools and read books, but having a coach or therapist helps you make breakthroughs faster. In my own growth, I’ve seen the most progress when I’m working with a coach, sometimes with additional support like therapy, energy work, or hypnotherapy. You can only go so far on your own.
Find your people—whether it’s us or someone else—because that’s when you’ll see the greatest growth.
Darren:
Well said, and we’ll end on that note. See you next time.
Rachel:
See you all next Tuesday. Bye!
Darren:
Bye!